Birther Fail

I really don’t need to go into the ridiculousness of the Birther movement. Others have done so in greater detail than I need to. I just hope this leotarded kerfuffle results in the codification of our definition of “natural born citizen.” I remember from eighth grade U.S. History class and every government class I’ve taken since that a “natural born citizen” includes anyone born in the United States, as well as anyone born to one or more United States citizens anywhere in the world. Even if he were born in Kenya (which he wasn’t), Obama would be covered under the latter requirement, but apparently Orly Taitz and her followers skipped out on Civics to take extra semester hours in Batshit Insane. Unfortunately, it’s apparently never come up that we’d have to actually officially state that definition somewhere (except in the precedent set by 1874 Supreme Court case Minor v. Happersen), so silly Orly and the rest of the Birther crew are trying to invalidate Obama’s Presidency–and in all likelihood, Chester A. Arthur’s.

I just wanted to take this opportunity to remark on how perfectly suited Orly Taitz’s name is to the Internet. I mean, her last name is ridiculously close to “Taintz,” which is funny enough, but “Orly”? That’s not a name, that’s an image macro:
funny pictures
moar funny pictures

I look forward to the upcoming punditry of Donotwant Shokker, Rickroll Mudkipz, and Hampsterdance Allyourbase.

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56 Responses to Birther Fail

  1. Bronze Dog says:

    And just yesterday, I was about to put up my own post after reading a thread on the fake Kenya BC that got infected with Birthers.One bit of doggerel they also inspired me to write an entry for, "settled, once and for all." Those spouting it, saying pulling out the actual BC (against Hawaii's policy) should have been paying attention to what all the other birthers were saying: Many were making preemptive excuses, changing the definition of "natural born" to require both parents be citizens, or arbitrarily having his mother need to be past some made up required age "so she could pass on her citizenship."

  2. John Hanson (1715-1783) was the first president (1780-1783) of the United States under the Confederation before the Oligarchs took power with the Constitution which allowed Bush to be president and the ownership of guns. Hanson was an Oldenburg Moor, a black nobleman, and like Elijah-Moses-Enoch-Baptist-Mahdi-Elvis, went to space on a fiery alien ship and never died. Hanson has returned as Obama to end the evil Oligarchy! This is why they could never find Obama's birth certificate! Danny Lazare is right to want to change this NRA chad Oligarch Constitution which allows the angry white talk radio males to object to Obama's berth certificate! We must impeach Scalia to disable the southern oligarchs of Calhoun, Corker, & Shelby and their demented Constitution. They have this evil bill of rights with rights for hate speech, guns, lobbyist blogging, campaign bribery, states, property, bonuses, and other oligarchic thievery that needs to end! Such euphemism, like when they call you boy as if they ever intend to call you man when you "grow"! This is why we must oppose oligarch-serving superstition by supporting one-state solutions in India-Packistain, Palestain-Isreal, Turkey-Grease, Creatia-Servia, Armeania-Asbyjean and Zahir-Condo. Then we can abolish greed and superstition across the globe with free psychiatric healthcare. We need to do domestically like we did in Servia, to teach these oligarchs they have no rights to be superstitious racists.

  3. Jimmy Blue says:

    People are still taking this seriously? Wow. Just when you thought people really couldn't get any more Hey-what-would-happen-if-I-try-to-explode-my-anus-with-C4? kind of stupid they go and surprise you.Good to see you back Tom – how did all the tests and things go, if you don't mind me asking?

  4. Akusai says:

    Damn you, Tom, you slick bastard. I was going to make an O RLY macro.How many bloody times do I have to tell you to stay out of my head?

  5. Bronze Dog says:

    How about you borrow something from my head, Akusai? Take the image of Obama's COLB and caption it, "YAH, RLY!"

  6. Anonymous says:

    How is this a birther fail dummy?The birthers didn't rig up another fake document. Your stupid crowd did.

  7. Will Staples says:

    …which the "birthers" ate up like a 2-year-old inhaling a jawbreaker.Anyone who defends the birther movement really doesn't have the right to call anyone else "stupid" or "dummy".

  8. Bronze Dog says:

    This anonny's obviously like the psychics who claim that it doesn't count if Randi can train fakes to pass the "testing" of gullible parapsychology institutions."But he lied!""Yeah, to teach you a lesson about how gullible you are."

  9. Anonymous says:

    Every fake document that the Obama camp comes out with have to be checked out. And obviously its no slight in logic against the crowd for public vigilance when each fake document arrives.There has been a bunch of fake documents coming from the Obama camp. The two certificates posted on the web. Several going to Berg who unfortunately hasn't shared them with us, since he waited to confirm that they were fake.Orly did the right thing in sharing the process with us. Because it shows the fakery we are up against with the Obama camp.Notice that the alleged culprit attempted to alibi Obama right after about the time that the fakery was confirmed.

  10. Bronze Dog says:

    It seems to me that, according to your logic, any document produced must be fake.Of course the COLB from Hawaii is backed up the government institution whose job description includes verifying birth certificates. If you doubt the one Obama uses, you must doubt ALL Hawaiian birth certificates because they come from the same institution.The known forgeries, of course, did nothing to dent that institution's credibility, and only cast a harsh light on the Birthers' gullibility, if they're so willing to accept documents with obvious historical mistakes.

  11. Anonymous says:

    "Of course the COLB from Hawaii is backed up the government institution whose job description includes verifying birth certificates. If you doubt the one Obama uses, you must doubt ALL Hawaiian birth certificates because they come from the same institution."No thats a total lie. Both these COLB's available to the public are proven forgeries. And you are lying when you say that the Hawaiians have confirmed them. They most certainly have not. Lying doesn't count. So these two forgeries are part of the stream of fake documents coming out of the Obama camp.

  12. Doubting Tom says:

    Every fake document that the Obama camp comes out with have to be checked out.What is the "Obama camp"? The fake Kenyan birth certificate was created by an anonymous blogger–for all I know, it was you. All I know about his political leanings is that he finds the Birthers ridiculous, which means he could be as far left as Barney Frank or as far right as Ann Coulter. As far as the Hawaii Department of Health, though, clearly they're part of the conspiracy. And obviously its no slight in logic against the crowd for public vigilance when each fake document arrives.I don't think you know what "logic" means, because this sentence is meaningless. Orly did the right thing in sharing the process with us. Because it shows the fakery we are up against with the Obama camp.Yes, Orly did the right thing in falling hook, line, and sinker for an obvious fraud, which contained anachronisms and absurdities so obvious that even WorldNetDaily advised skepticism, and using it as the basis for another fruitless lawsuit about the President's legitimacy. Certainly, she didn't demonstrate extreme credulousness or harm the credibility of the Birther movement, of which she has become the de facto leader. Notice that the alleged culprit attempted to alibi Obama right after about the time that the fakery was confirmed.Got a source for that? Because the only writing I know of from the "alleged culprit" is a parody of a MasterCard commercial. What Taitz did, as Bronze Dog noted, was demonstrate that she (and the Birthers who fell for it along with her) are employing a double-standard–no amount of documents from the administration nor assurances from the Hawaiian government (nor explanations of how birth certificates and the Presidency work) seem to be able to convince them that their argument is flawed, but they'll jump all over even the most flimsy evidence that apparently supports their claims. They're not skeptics, they're not critical thinkers, and they're clearly not searching for the truth. This incident, and various before and since, have demonstrated that at least a large swath of the Birther movement is made up of irrational ideologues.

  13. Anonymous says:

    "I remember from eighth grade U.S. History class and every government class I've taken since that a "natural born citizen" includes anyone born in the United States, as well as anyone born to one or more United States citizens anywhere in the world. "Complete bullshit. You are having a flashback and its someone elses life. The power of leftist mantras on past memory. Were this the case there would have been absolutely not controversy with Martin Van Buren being born in an area that was a territory and not a State at the time of his birth.Just send such idiocy to the fires. Since it means you are not engaged with any real world debate.

  14. Anonymous says:

    "What is the "Obama camp"? The fake Kenyan birth certificate was created by an anonymous blogger–for all I know, it was you."Right. In your view in no way connected with the Obama camp. Like they are just going to confess dopey. But his forgery was rigged up in aid of Obama. And he quickly follows it up with a brazen attempt to alibi Obama. I'm not discounting the possibility of one of you leftists acting alone. But we wouldn't want to let the usurper off the hook by merely presuming this as a default position.Unlike the other two forgeries that have been released to the general public (not including those that Berg has but hasn't released) this is a forgery THAT WANTED TO BE FOUND.Hence for want of a better phrase we would call it a counter-intelligence forgery. Whereas the other two we have seen are just plain forgeries.The first two forgeries are clumsy botch-jobs that at least attempt to be forgeries.The third is a polished piece of work that nonetheless made sure it would be revealed as a forgery. Numbers and letters the could have been changed were not changed. But the whole thing was done masterfully with a lot of effort and expense. Then the team put out an announcement specifically downplaying the expense. In other words alibiing the usurper or his sponsors.

  15. Doubting Tom says:

    Both these COLB's available to the public are proven forgeries.Neat. Evidence?And you are lying when you say that the Hawaiians have confirmed them. They most certainly have not.Really? Because Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health, would beg to differ. Here's one of several money quotes:"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.Either you're lying, which you said quite correctly "doesn't count," or you're wrong and you can't spend ten seconds on Google to correct your ignorance. Don't go spouting off on things that you clearly haven't looked into at all.

  16. Anonymous says:

    I repeat. Its no reflection on Orly. She was right to release the document and try and lodge it pending verification. Thats not falling for any document. Thats verification of the fact. Its YOU thats been made a fool of. Nor Orly. Its YOU that has been manipulated by the document. All such documents are meant to manipulate useful idiots like yourself. These documents would have no effect on Orly or me. We just want to find out if they are the real deal or not. Whereas you were entirely manipulated and stooged.This isn't the first or last that fake placed documents have done this job. People like yourself are always fooled by stuff like this with total certainty. No matter how often it is done. The last time this happened that I can remember was a fake document brought into a European country which was meant to discredit the Iraqi/Niger story. People like you were totally stooged by this document. As you always are by this sort of document. As you always will be.A thousand fake documents is not any evidence for the usurper side of the argument. Another thousand fake documents would not in logic reduce Orly's case even a tiny bit.

  17. Anonymous says:

    "Really? Because Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health, would beg to differ. Here's one of several money quotes:"No no. THIS IS YOU LYING AGAIN. And being stooged again. She not contradict what I said.Lets have that retraction NOW you idiot. Lets have that retraction.Just see how easily punked you are.Once more HAWAII HAS NOT VERIFIED THE TWO FAKE OBAMA DOCUMENTS AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.Your quote, right in front of your idiotic nose does not back up your claims.

  18. Doubting Tom says:

    Complete bullshit. You are having a flashback and its someone elses life.Yeah, that makes all sorts of sense. Were this the case there would have been absolutely not controversy with Martin Van Buren being born in an area that was a territory and not a State at the time of his birth.Um…Van Buren was born in New York. He was the first President to actually be born in the United States. All the others before him were born as British subjects. You just make shit up, don't you?And he quickly follows it up with a brazen attempt to alibi Obama.Again, you assert this. Please provide a link, or kindly fuck yourself. Here's the full text of the confession post: http://www.upload.mn/view/5ro4tlhvqps1xm7v65lw.jpghttp://www.upload.mn/view/2vu1mtqgb7obp3yym18l.jpghttp://www.upload.mn/view/gs5jgyylzx17ozzdc1s3.jpghttp://www.upload.mn/view/eg35f93o0abil85nsa70.jpgFine cotton business paper: $11Inkjet printer: $351940 Royal Model KMM manual typewriter: $102 Shilling coin: $1Pilot Varsity fountain pen: $3Punkin' the Birthers: PricelessWhere do you see an alibi? Who would need one? The forged document contained enough clues to let anyone with access to Wikipedia know that it was fake; what purpose would the "Obama camp" have in drawing it up? How could they know that Taitz and her cronies would fall for such an obvious fraud? Even if your insane troll conspiracy story held up, the only possible motivation the "Obama camp" could have for the Kenyan forgery would be to make the Birthers look like idiots, and in order for that plan to work, the unknowing Birthers would have to be complicit. Which they were. So either the Birthers are idiots who fell for an obvious fraud done by an Internet prankster, or the Birthers are idiots who fell for an obvious fraud done by the "Obama camp." Either way, it doesn't look good for Orly. The rest of your post would look less like the ravings of a street-corner lunatic if I had any idea what three "forgeries" you were talking about. Links, please.

  19. Anonymous says:

    "Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said."You see!!! It does not back up your idiotic mantra. Received from others. Adopted by you like you were some sort of blank slate. You say "either you are lying……"YOU ARE WRONG. Because your own quote does not do what you claim it does.Now how about you put your fucking thinking cap on you idiot.Now I'm fine with you wiping the last few comments of mine if you like. There is no point a fellow having his own blog and copping a lot of abuse.But I would just ask that from here on in you have your thinking cap on. And that includes for everything like jacking mercury with three innoculations at once into babies (an argument where there is dopey thinking on both sides)and also with the Big Bang(and argument where the stupidity is all on one side.)

  20. Anonymous says:

    Obviously the alibi is this guy allegedly confessing in the first place AND PLAYING DOWN THE COST OF THIS POLISHED DOCUMENT.There is no such thing as an anonymous confession. Any anonymous confession is really an alibi for someone. And the idea that this is a cheap deal by only mentioning variable cost is going out of your way to alibi the boss.

  21. Anonymous says:

    "Even if your insane troll conspiracy story held up, the only possible motivation the "Obama camp" could have for the Kenyan forgery would be to make the Birthers look like idiots…."You idiot. Forgeries are always a conspiracy. Put your conspiracy hat on dopey. That would be like attempting to find the 9/11 killers without it dawning on you that mass terrorist attacks are as of necessity a conspiracy.Of course they wanted to discredit the birthers. They failed in logic but succeeded in the public court of the simple-minded twits like yourself.

  22. djfav says:

    Mmmm…crank magnetism.

  23. Doubting Tom says:

    I repeat. Its no reflection on Orly. She was right to release the document and try and lodge it pending verification.She didn't release anything. The fake Kenyan birth certificate was posted online. She just fell for it and used it as evidence, even long after it had been exposed as a fraud.Thats not falling for any document. Thats verification of the fact.No, verification of the fact was what various other bloggers and news outlets did, looking into the certificate, noticing problems (like the fact that it lists Kenya as a Republic when it was still a Dominion, and that it calls the location a Province, when it was still called a region), and going so far as to track down the Australian birth certificate that served as the template. Orly could have discovered any of those things with a little effort. Instead, she filed a lawsuit using that fake certificate as evidence. We just want to find out if they are the real deal or not. Whereas you were entirely manipulated and stooged."It is you who are the ball-lickers!" Yeah, right. So, in order to find out if this Kenyan certificate was the real deal, you and Orly decided to just buy into it. And all us stooges were entirely manipulated into seeing the obvious anachronisms and tracking down the source of the forgery. A thousand fake documents is not any evidence for the usurper side of the argument. Another thousand fake documents would not in logic reduce Orly's case even a tiny bit.Again, you don't seem to know what logic is. You also don't seem to understand what the burden of proof is, nor how credibility matters in these situations. You're right, a thousand hoaxes do nothing to support or refute either side. However, when one side provides actual evidence to support their case (such as the testimony of the Hawaii Dept. of Health, and the two birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers, and so forth) and the other side consistently relies on fallacious arguments and falls for obvious hoaxes, then the credibility gap becomes clear. No no. THIS IS YOU LYING AGAIN. And being stooged again. She not contradict what I said.Lets have that retraction NOW you idiot.Lets have that retraction.Just see how easily punked you are.Once more HAWAII HAS NOT VERIFIED THE TWO FAKE OBAMA DOCUMENTS AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.You can yell and handwave away all the evidence all you like. There's nothing for me to retract, you moron. The Director of the Hawaii state Dept. of Health has stated publicly that he has examined Obama's original birth certificate, and that it is genuine. Read the official press release, you idiot. I don't care about your alleged forgeries (and I see you moving the goalposts there), the Hawaiian Dept. of Health has verified Obama's birth certificate. By the way, where were you "usurper" assholes in 2000, when someone actually did circumvent the U.S. Constitution to become President?

  24. djfav says:

    Full disclosure: I was the one who anonymously posted the YAH RLY! image macro.

  25. Doubting Tom says:

    You see!!! It does not back up your idiotic mantra. Received from others. Adopted by you like you were some sort of blank slate.What mantra? What the hell are you talking about?Obviously the alibi is this guy allegedly confessing in the first place AND PLAYING DOWN THE COST OF THIS POLISHED DOCUMENT.Add "alibi" to the list of words you don't understand. This is a classic argument from ignorance. "I can't comprehend how someone could fool me with such simple tools, therefore it's impossible." There is no such thing as an anonymous confession.This will be news to every Catholic ever.Any anonymous confession is really an alibi for someone. And the idea that this is a cheap deal by only mentioning variable cost is going out of your way to alibi the boss.Or it's playing on a common meme popularized by credit card commercials. Put your conspiracy hat on dopey.I don't have a conspiracy hat. I use my tinfoil for cooking. I prefer my reality hat; I recommend you pick one up from your local sane haberdasher. Of course they wanted to discredit the birthers. They failed in logic but succeeded in the public court of the simple-minded twits like yourself.Again, in order to discredit the Birthers, Orly and the Birther crew had to play along. In order for this alleged conspiracy to work, the Birthers would have to be morons who can't take ten seconds to find out whether or not Kenya was a Republic in February of 1964. I guess it's good for the grand conspirators that the Birthers were exactly as stupid and reactionary as their needlessly circuitous conspiracy required.

  26. Anonymous says:

    How about retract that lie that the Hawaiians have backed up the two forgeries you illogical anti-reason brainless fucking moron.You do not have a quote to back up this totally brainless lie.Let have that retraction Tom you fuckwit.You just have to face facts idiot. Your quote does not back up your lie.A thousand denials will not make the spell. This is why you got stooged by the big bang. There is nothing with the mainstream stamp on it that you will not be taken in by. Whether its jacking babies with Mercury or quotes that do not back up what you are claiming. There is nothing that you cannot be taken in by.No independent thinking ability whatsoever.

  27. Anonymous says:

    What Orly had to do is verify the document. This she did do. You were stooged. She was not. Since in logic it makes no difference to her case.I'm glad she included the rest of us in the process. And I would have wished we had hold of all the other Obama forgeries that Berg has with-held, debunking them independently. Just as he debunked the two forgeries released to the public by the way.

  28. Doubting Tom says:

    How about retract that lie that the Hawaiians have backed up the two forgeries you illogical anti-reason brainless fucking moron.How about finding where I said that, dipshit? Since I don't know which "two forgeries" you're talking about, I really can't form any opinion on whether or not they're genuine. However, you've said that "Both these COLB's available to the public are proven forgeries," and this is manifestly untrue. At least one of the COLBs available to the public is an actual certified copy issued by the Hawaii Dept. of Health, of the same kind that they'd issue for anyone. The Director of the Hawaii DOH (a GOP supporter, incidentally) has verified that they have Obama's original birth certificate. A thousand denials will not make the spell. This is why you got stooged by the big bang. There is nothing with the mainstream stamp on it that you will not be taken in by.Which is why I'm a Christian who loves Dane Cook movies and Nickelback. Oh, wait.No independent thinking ability whatsoever.And finally, you show some capacity for self-reflection.

  29. Bronze Dog says:

    Let me see if I've got Anonny's "logic" straight: Obama should release a document for public evaluation by people who are too lazy to spot an obvious forgery that was debunked with a simple Wikipedia check. And he should do this with a special executive order instead of letting the institution whose job it is to verify this stuff do that job.Of course, even if Obama did all that, they'd start saying it's "suspicious" and "telling" that he went through the trouble.

  30. Anonymous says:

    No no. Its YOU who has no understanding what the burden of proof is. And here in this thread we have seen your rebellion against logic in your continuing insistence that the Hawaiians have back up the two other forgeries.The burden of proof in nearly every case is a special request for a handicap. And the side that needs a handicap is the illogical side. So even the anti-logic of the burden of proof concept is something you have fallen for.Believe me. There is nothing with the mainstream stamp on it that you won't buy into having rejected logic. Nothing.The global warming racket. In the middle of an ice age, without empirical evidence. Doesn't matter. You will buy into to it because you have rejected logic and embraced the burden of proof anti-logic, request for handicap.

  31. Doubting Tom says:

    What Orly had to do is verify the document. This she did do. You were stooged. She was not. Since in logic it makes no difference to her case.What did Orly supposedly do to verify the document?

  32. djfav says:

    Birtherism – CheckAnti-vax – Check9/11 Truth – CheckAGW denialism – CheckYup. Certified crank.

  33. Bronze Dog says:

    Oh, and the funny thing about the Big Bang: Most BB denialists I know of explain all the successful predictions of the theory as being attributable to a geocentric universe that allows faster than light travel and raw random coincidence that the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation was accurately predicted by sheer, absolute random chance. All bow down before the dice god.

  34. Doubting Tom says:

    The burden of proof in nearly every case is a special request for a handicap. And the side that needs a handicap is the illogical side.Please stop using words that you don't understand.The burden of proof rests on the claimants. In this case, the Birthers are claiming that Barack Obama is not eligible to be President. They have to meet that burden of proof. In order to support the counterclaim, those supporting Obama have produced a copy of his actual birth certificate, a statement by the Hawaii DOH Director verifying that they have the original Obama birth certificate, notices from Hawaiian newspapers about Obama's birth, and so forth. In order to demonstrate their case, the Birthers have to provide evidence that is at least of equal quality. Instead, they have provided no evidence, and their propensity for frivolous lawsuits and falling for hoaxes has damaged their credibility in any argument they make. So even the anti-logic of the burden of proof concept is something you have fallen for.You're an idiot.The global warming racket. In the middle of an ice age, without empirical evidence.Yes, you're right, there is no empirical evidence that we're in the middle of an ice age. That's because we're in the middle of a warming period that the empirical evidence demonstrates is uncommonly large.

  35. Anonymous says:

    "Let me see if I've got Anonny's "logic" straight: Obama should release a document for public evaluation by people who are too lazy to spot an obvious forgery that was debunked with a simple Wikipedia check…"That didn't happen. You are lying. The matter was checked, verified, and resolved. The forgery is now established as a forgery as an undeniable fact. As are the other two.Which shows how superior in analysis the birther side is. Whereas they can quickly establish something as a fact you guys are not capable of this.Like for example its a fact that Toms quote does not back his contention that the Hawaiians have confirmed the two other forgeries.This is a FACT. Now then again Tom may come up with OTHER information that supports his contention. He won't but for arguments sakes he could.So he cannot even establish the easiest fact in logic. Whereas the latest fake document, in a long series of fake documents, has been confirmed a fake by the birther side in an absolute sense.And yet your side is simply incapable of nailing the slightest proposition down with the same ruthless analysis.

  36. Anonymous says:

    "The burden of proof rests on the claimants."In logic both sides that disagree are claimants you moron. A total logic fail on your part.So again. The burden of proof request is almost always proof of the illogical nature of the side making the request.This is a simple application of logic and totally undeniable.You claim he's eligible. I claim he needs to prove it. You have no evidence for your claim whatsoever. So you go in for the request for handicap. Since both claims come from one claimant or another.

  37. Doubting Tom says:

    djfav: Yeah, this is a perfect example of what I was talking about in the next post.

  38. Anonymous says:

    There is only really one thing worth debating on this blog. And that is the basic illogic of the relentless request for a handicap which the burden of proof represents. This is the illogic from which all other illogic flows.There is simply nothing worth debating until this matter of the burden of proof is resolved in favour of logic.

  39. Anonymous says:

    Birtherism – CheckNot really. The case for public vigilance and following the constitution. And most of all RESPECTING the constitution. Which implies he needs to be vetted.Anti-vax – CheckI'm powerfully in favour of the concept of vaccination. But the idiocy of jacking nerve poisons and triple innoculations into babies seems to lack prudence in my view.Sometimes I use understatements like "lack prudence" for effect.9/11 Truth – CheckIf your claim is that I think it was an inside job you are lying. But there was regime action involved of that we can be sure. Enemy regime. No American regime.AGW denialism – CheckYes. The global warming racket is all rubbish and unscience. It appears there is nothing you won't fall for once the burden of proof anti-logic is locked in. I have explored this matter in great detail. Its a fraud. The only subject worth talking about until it is resolved is the illogic of your sides claims to the "burden of proof"This claim is a total negation of logic and reason. If taken seriously it would mean the end of science. There are certainly some occasions when one would claim it. But not in the way that you younger "skeptics" use it. I cannot tell you how dismayed I am at what has happened to Randi's 70's skeptic movement. Its such a great shame. Its deteriorated to this extreme extent. You guys should have a moratorium on all other subjects to deal with this burden of proof anti-logic. And also to try and re-educate yourself on the subject of logic more generally.The young skeptics have earned for themselves a near total logic fail. They are merely flotsam and jetsam of wider leftist manipulation.

  40. djfav says:

    Your desire to discuss the burden of proof is nothing more than a red herring itself. How about you present some evidence, or are you unable to shoulder the responsibility?Evidence has been provided to you in the form of a certificate of birth, the authenticity of which has been verfied. The burden is all yours.

  41. djfav says:

    "And also to try and re-educate yourself on the subject of logic more generally."I have a degree in Philosophy. What have you got?

  42. Doubting Tom says:

    That didn't happen. You are lying. The matter was checked, verified, and resolved.What didn't happen? You mean Bloggers didn't immediately seize upon the problems in the birth certificate? You mean that journalists didn't discover the source of the fake? This all happened the Monday after Taitz vomited the document to the world.I was wrong about one thing, though: apparently she did release it, claiming to have gotten it from an anonymous source. So I guess her method of verification was "releasing it to WorldNetDaily as the smoking gun of Obama's ineligibility."Which shows how superior in analysis the birther side is. Whereas they can quickly establish something as a fact you guys are not capable of this.Yes, the Birthers at the Washington Post and Salon.com quickly established that the Kenyan birth certificate was a crude forgery. Which is why you're claiming that it was an elegant and perfect government conspiracy. What?And yet your side is simply incapable of nailing the slightest proposition down with the same ruthless analysis."On Bizarro World, us do opposite of all Earthly things!"In logic both sides that disagree are claimants you moron. A total logic fail on your part.No, the group making the positive claim is the claimant, you moron. In this case, it's arguable that both sides are making claims–it's also arguable that one side is making the more extraordinary claim, and therefore has the greater burden of proof. But regardless, and regardless of your bald assertions to the contrary, one side has consistently met its burden of proof, while the Birther side has consistently responded with nothing but accusations and inconsistent conspiracy-mongering. So again. The burden of proof request is almost always proof of the illogical nature of the side making the request.I am the Lord Jesus Christ, and I have returned to separate the saved from the damned. This is a simple application of logic and totally undeniable.Again, you have no idea what "logic" means. You claim he's eligible. I claim he needs to prove it. You have no evidence for your claim whatsoever. So you go in for the request for handicap. Since both claims come from one claimant or another.No, I don't request a handicap. I claim that he's eligible, and as evidence, I put forth the released copy of his birth certificate, the verification by the Hawaii DOH (here's another, by the way, which spells it out for the people in the stupid seats), the 1964 Hawaiian birth announcements, and the fact that Congress certified his election to the Presidency with no objections. The burden of proof for the claim of eligibility has been met repeatedly, and is irrelevant anyway given that there's no mechanism to remove a sitting, certified president who hasn't committed any crime. The Birthers have put forth the positive claim that Obama was not born in the United States, and have provided no evidence whatsoever to support that claim. Unless you have something better than a hoax birth certificate from Kenya and baseless claims of forgeries, then your side has not met any burden of proof for its claims. The only handicaps here are the mental ones possessed by Taitz and her followers.

  43. Doubting Tom says:

    And most of all RESPECTING the constitution. Which implies he needs to be vetted.Um, right…which is why we had that whole election thing. Once again, where were you the last eight years, when the Constitution was receiving anything but respect from the administration? Why is it that violations of the first and fourth amendments leave people cold, but a guy with brown skin brings out these legions of self-appointed Constitutional defenders?Also, please point me to the place where the Constitution defines a natural-born citizen as referring only to someone born in the United States.But the idiocy of jacking nerve poisons and triple innoculations into babies seems to lack prudence in my view.And since your view is totally unburdened by facts or expertise, it is rightly ignored. But there was regime action involved of that we can be sure. Enemy regime. No American regime.And which enemy regime would that be? How can we be sure of that?This claim is a total negation of logic and reason. If taken seriously it would mean the end of science. I guess those scientists who originated the concept of a burden of proof are going to be devastated. Who knew that demanding positive claims to be supported by empirical evidence proportional to the extraordinariness of the claim would be the end of science? I cannot tell you how dismayed I am at what has happened to Randi's 70's skeptic movement.Oh, this sounds familiar. It's the "You damn kids don't understand what skepticism really is" guy. And also to try and re-educate yourself on the subject of logic more generally.You owe me an irony meter, sir.

  44. Anonymous says:

    Logic tells us that 1000 more fake documents sent by the Obama camp cannot undermine Orly's argument. Nor can 1000 or yet even 10000 of these documents prove that Obama is eligible.Thats really the end of the matter. You were stooged by the document. Since you thought it was a birther fail. The document manipulated you. The document was not capable of manipulating me or Orly.Now this is logic. How is it that you do not grasp this. Simply because you reject logic through your ideology of occult epistemology. You assume automatic knowledge via the illogical claim that the burden of proof is always on your side.I cannot see how even apart from this you can have any understanding of logic. Since you still claim that a quote which manifestly does not have the Hawaiians backing up the two other publicly released forgeries, does indeed do this.But its doesn't. You are lying. Or demonstrating a severe logic deficit.There is no irony in this. You are not capable of logic. If you were you would come up with another Hawaiian quote or retract your idiocy.A clear logic fail on your part. As is the burden of proof business. This could not be more of a clear logic fail in both your cases. No irony involved. My logic is sound. You are incapable of sound logic. You are just going to have to educate yourself all over again. Your logic may pass muster in taxeater land. But it would do you no good when the stolen money subsidy ran out.

  45. Bronze Dog says:

    Graeme: Logic tells us that 1000 more fake documents sent by the Obama camp cannot undermine Orly's argument. Nor can 1000 or yet even 10000 of these documents prove that Obama is eligible.Duh. But Orly's complete and utter inability to spot an obvious forgery suggests her opinion on the authenticity of documents is questionable at best.Thats really the end of the matter. You were stooged by the document. Since you thought it was a birther fail. The document manipulated you. The document was not capable of manipulating me or Orly.Wow. The stupid is strong with this one. Orly was too lazy and sloppy to recognize a fake and made a fool of herself, therefore we're the ones with egg on our face? Seriously?Now this is logic. How is it that you do not grasp this. Simply because you reject logic through your ideology of occult epistemology. You assume automatic knowledge via the illogical claim that the burden of proof is always on your side.No, you're the one assuming that all knowledge is impossible. We've got the Hawaii Department of Health telling us that they've verified the real BC. We've got contemporary newspapers announcing Obama's birth in Hawaii. We've met our burden of proof because of those things. For Orly to win, she'll have to produce even better evidence than what we have. So far, all she's done is provide an image from some joker on the Internet.So, which is it: The side with the real documents, or the word of someone who falls for obvious internet jokes?I cannot see how even apart from this you can have any understanding of logic. Since you still claim that a quote which manifestly does not have the Hawaiians backing up the two other publicly released forgeries, does indeed do this.Translation: Graeme thinks that official statements from the people who keep the documents don't count because it'd be inconvenient.But its doesn't. You are lying. Or demonstrating a severe logic deficit.Why don't that quote, the newspapers, or the COLB mean anything? All I hear from you is "Nuh-uh!" alongside random blurting out against the entirety of the philosophy of science because it doesn't line up with Hollywood logic.I find it hilarious as well as frustrating that someone whose philosophy can't even tentatively conclude "unicorns aren't real" is saying we're the ones incapable of logic.Tell me, can your so-called "logic" come to any sorts of conclusions about anything?

  46. Doubting Tom says:

    Logic tells us that 1000 more fake documents sent by the Obama camp cannot undermine Orly's argument.Really? Where does "logic" tell us that?Thats really the end of the matter. You were stooged by the document. Since you thought it was a birther fail. The document manipulated you. The document was not capable of manipulating me or Orly.We have always been at war with Eastasia.Since you still claim that a quote which manifestly does not have the Hawaiians backing up the two other publicly released forgeries, does indeed do this.Again, show me where I made such a claim. When you talk about "two publicly released forgeries," I have no idea what you're talking about. If you would link to which certificates you think are forgeries, it might help me understand your argument. What I have claimed all along is that a copy of Obama's Certificate of Live Birth–a copy like the ones anyone can receive from their state health department–was released to the public, and the Hawaiian DOH has verified that they have the original on-file and that Obama is a natural-born citizen. You have said nothing to counter these points except "nuh-uh!"Graeme didn't just drink the Kool-Aid, he fell in.

  47. Anonymous says:

    So you choose merely to lie. Your claim is that the Hawaiians have verified the two different Obama certificates posted on the net. They haven't. You are lying. Yet you claimed that you had a quote which proved that they had done so.You made the quote. It proved no such thing. As a matter of fact the Hawaiians are notable in the fact of NEVER backing up those documents.See you are a moron Tom!And how did you get to be so stupid?The burden of proof, according to your occult epistemology, is always on your side.You ought not be allowed anywhere near the kids.

  48. Anonymous says:

    To prove once again that you are lying:I SAID:And you are lying when you say that the Hawaiians have confirmed them. They most certainly have not.LIAR SAID:Really? Because Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health, would beg to differ. Here's one of several money quotes:"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.PROOF THAT YOU WERE LYING. SINCE THE ABOVE QUOTE DOES NOT SAY WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING IT SEZ.LYING DOESN'T COUNT TOM. THIS IS WHY YOU ARE MENTALLY HANDICAPPED. BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY REJECT LOGIC AND REASON.

  49. Doubting Tom says:

    More of the same from Graeme Birdbrain, so comment moderation is turned on. If you want to post any more, Graeme, find a new record. Your claim is that the Hawaiians have verified the two different Obama certificates posted on the net.That has never been my claim. Yet you claimed that you had a quote which proved that they had done so.The quotes demonstrate that Obama's original birth certificate is on-file and that he is a natural-born citizen. They also lend credence to the Certificate of Live Birth which was publicly released, and which I assume you're calling a forgery. And you are lying when you say that the Hawaiians have confirmed them. They most certainly have not.Let's see what you said right before that, as long as you're calling people liars:No thats a total lie. Both these COLB's available to the public are proven forgeries.I don't know what COLBs you're talking about, but I suspect one of them is this one, which is the same kind of official copy anyone can get from any state DOH. This is available to the public, this is a COLB, and this is issued officially by the Hawaii DOH. As the DOH head said in the press release and articles, Hawaii isn't in the business of handing out originals of their documents (most such agencies aren't), but they have confirmed the existence, presence, and contents of Obama's birth certificate. This should be the end of your argument. I don't give a flying fuck which COLBs you think are forgeries, you dumbass, the Hawaii Department of Health has confirmed that Obama is a natural-born citizen. This is my claim and has been my claim all along. You have said nothing to contradict it, except to try to claim that I said something about two forgeries, which I didn't. As I've repeatedly said, I don't know what "forgeries" you're talking about. You're unhinged, Graeme. Seek help. Oh, and as a reminder: kindly go fuck yourself.

  50. Bronze Dog says:

    Well, I never did get a reply to the whole unicorn thing. Graeme never got to tell me how to conclude unicorns don't exist in woo epistemology/"science" that denies the existence of the burden of proof.Here's how I do it:The people who say unicorns exist have yet to produce good evidence of even a single unicorn.A positive hypothesis raised without evidence can be dismissed without one. They have thus far failed to falsify the null hypothesis.Given Graeme's rejection of falsificationism as a basis for science, I wonder if that means we're talking to the brick wall known as logical positivism or something akin to that.More likely just random woo where ideas are judged solely how comfortable they make Graeme feel.

  51. Bronze Dog says:

    Just found out from Akusai on my blog that Graeme's also a relativity denialist.It's funny when you follow the premise of relativity denial to one of its inevitable conclusions: "The Global Positioning System can't work!" And yet, it does, with no loss of accuracy despite those clocks being purposefully a smidgen faster than earthbound ones. If Graeme and Wo[is]MI were right, they'd be constantly losing accuracy as time went on.

  52. Jimmy Blue says:

    I remember reading an entry on his blog that said something about using IR to look into the Martian face to see the alien/government base beneath it.Apparently, Graeme's science education and skepticism didn't stretch to understanding the electro-magnetic spectrum. Which would also explain why he doesn't understand the science behind AGW.He's a classic case of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

  53. Bronze Dog says:

    …How the hell is IR supposed to see through rock?Someone's drunken deep of Hollywood Science and its Flavor-aid.

  54. Doubting Tom says:

    To be far more charitable than the hypothesis warrants, I suppose, if the rock were sufficiently thin or something, and the things underneath it were sufficiently hot, and there wasn't any significant heat transfer to any of the rock or anything, you might be able to make out vague shapes of the hot objects. It's like using far-IR cameras to see thermal signatures of people moving around in a house…except houses aren't typically made of solid rock.

  55. Ty says:

    It makes me feel good when I read something written by someone on the other side of the debate, and it's idiotic. I know, I know, it's empty calories like cotton candy, but it tastes so good.Anonymous writes like an angry 13 year old with severe ADHD. This is secondary to the complete lack of facts or rationale in their posts, but it still makes me happy to see someone defending a stupid position, and doing it stupidly.

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